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Author: Subject: CD sound question - old vs. new

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 06:13 PM
I threw some discs on the CD changer rotation today.

My CD of Jerry Garcia Band live from 1990-91 was bought when it came out around 1991. It sounded so much lower volume wise than the newer ones in the mix. I didn't touch the volume and when High and Mighty by the Mule or the new Marc Ford CD came on they were so much louder. I think I've heard somewhere that newer CDs are made more for Mp3 format rather than stereos. Is this true? When that JGB CD came out, I thought it sounded great. It still sounds great but I had to turn the volume up. This hurt the flow of tunes since I had to turn up JGB and then when the newer discs came on they blew the roof off and the volume on the stereo wasn't that high.

Could it be that the older CD has just kind of lost some quality over the 15 plus years I've had it ?


 
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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 06:20 PM
Newer discs are just mastered at a higher volume. This does not mean they are "better," but people seem to prefer it that way.

I think they also use dynamic range compression. Somebody may correct me on that term though. ?? Even the parts that should be quiet are loud. I'm not really a fan of this.

 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 07:20 PM
they master cd louder these days to catch the ear of the program directors,

it sucks, they are highly compressed, lacks dynamic range and leads to ear fatigue.


gotta sell those color tvs

 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 07:41 PM
bring back analog !
 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 07:49 PM
quote:
bring back analog !


YES!

I've been listening to some old vinyl that I hadn't listened to in years. The range and the stereo separation is so much better.
The two albums I've been listening to are Dave Mason is Alive and Neil Youngs' Everybody Knows This Nowhere

 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 08:44 PM
quote:
quote:
bring back analog !


YES!

I've been listening to some old vinyl that I hadn't listened to in years. The range and the stereo separation is so much better.
The two albums I've been listening to are Dave Mason is Alive and Neil Youngs' Everybody Knows This Nowhere


If I only knew then what I know now...

CDs were touted as as the ultimate high fidelity medium. Vinyl, with it's tighter, more limited dynamic range, just could not compete.

And I bought it .

When I think of all the albums I traded in for pennies on the dollar just so I could buy CDs, it makes me want to cry. What was I thinking ?

Now years later, after bring away from analog sound for so long, I can actually hear that elusive "warmth" that I used to think was just the hard core audiophiles' overamped imaginations.

Guess you folks were right after all.

And yes...the lunatics are now running the digital mixing boards. Todays CD's are mixed way too loud and yes...they are compressed as well. So all those former, wonderful dynamics are lost .

Why? Because the industry thinks it makes them sound "punchier?"

Give me a break.

I'll never trade in an older CD for the new improved remaster again. More and more , the older version sounds better.

And it's a given that I'll never, never ,trade away a vinyl record again.

In fact, I could stand to own a few more...

[Edited on 6/16/2007 by les_paul_sunburst]

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 09:52 PM
Thanks for the info. So I'm not crazy after all.

Les Paul, I agree with you. I bought the newer version of Little Feat's Waiting for Columbus and I think the original CD from years ago sounds better although the new version has outtakes and songs that were on the LP but not the original CD .

 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 10:01 PM
guess i'll stick with the first cd i ever bought,back in 1987,dark side of the moon.wow,that was 20 years ago!
 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 10:48 PM
one thing to also consider that many "older" cd's were from master analog tapes
now most stuff is recorded in the digital format, or re-mastered stuff to "punch" up sales

 

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  posted on 6/15/2007 at 11:34 PM
Here is a nice youtube clip of what they are doing when they master CD's these days...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Gmex_4hreQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Gmex_4hreQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 06:53 AM
quote:
Thanks for the info. So I'm not crazy after all.

Les Paul, I agree with you. I bought the newer version of Little Feat's Waiting for Columbus and I think the original CD from years ago sounds better although the new version has outtakes and songs that were on the LP but not the original CD .


Oh yeah. The music industry knows that true fans of the band need to have every little "scrap" that they ever laid down on tape. But too often, scraps is all that they are. They are rarely worth the extra cost of buying the release again.

But you are not crazy by the way. I'm learning a lot about some of the negative aspects of CDs for the first time now that my ears and eyes are open.

I'm not saying that I'll never buy another one, but they sure ain't the super high fidelity medium that were once touted as. And yep. In some cases, a particular album did used to sound better.

[Edited on 6/16/2007 by les_paul_sunburst]

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 07:03 AM
quote:
guess i'll stick with the first cd i ever bought,back in 1987,dark side of the moon.wow,that was 20 years ago!


Cool. That was a great first one.

Mine was the James Gang's 15 greatest Hits. I actually bought it before I even owned a CD player. Just getting ready I guess...

It was 16 Greatest Hits on the LP, but they had to chop one off to get it to fit on the CD. So they did, and just changed the name.

Boy. Now there was some evil foreboding...

Speaking of Dark Side, I bought the 20th Anniversary edition way back in 1992. It came in a little CD sized box, with color pics of the band and a cool lyric book.

And it sounds so good that there is no need at all to replace it. I can not imagine it ever sounding better. Regardless of what the "moneyheads" try to tell me.







[Edited on 6/16/2007 by les_paul_sunburst]

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 08:14 AM
I try to avoid "remastered" in most instances. They're goosed up in the treble and bass, highly compressed and many sound harsh and downright annoying. "Can we have everything louder than everything else?".
I wasted lots of time and $$ on purchasing remasters through the past few years only to realize that most of those discs sounded far worse than the originals, (Zeppelin, ABB, Van Halen, Deep Purple to name a few) so I've went back and re-purchased the older "first pressing" discs.
Granted though, I listen on a decent 2-channel home stereo; the remasters will sound more appealing to many in car stereos and boom boxes etc.

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 11:29 AM
This is a highly guarded secret, but each cd has a built in volume diminisher that incrementally brings down the volume the older it gets. This is just another way record companies get you to buy the same product over and over. We should comlain to the government about such immoral business practices, but it wouldn't do any good because the recording industry has the congress in their pockets.

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 12:22 PM
quote:
This is a highly guarded secret, but each cd has a built in volume diminisher that incrementally brings down the volume the older it gets. This is just another way record companies get you to buy the same product over and over. We should comlain to the government about such immoral business practices, but it wouldn't do any good because the recording industry has the congress in their pockets.


That sure hasn't happened to my vintage CD copy of Raw Power by Iggy and the Stooges.

If anything, it has gotten louder and nastier sounding with age...

 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 02:38 PM
The video on youtube is quite interesting. I had wondered if I was the only one who noticed. Definitely makes it hard for me to listen to these "new" CDs for a long period of time.

However, as a lot of the YouTube comments indicated, people don't really seem interested and are happy with MP3's--which are probelematic by their very nature.

I don't have a lot of CD's from the pre-remastered days, but I sure wish I did now.

Since this is an ABB site, what do people think of the ABB Capricorn remasters? I hadn't noticed this compression on them too much... don't think ?? Probably help if I had a better stereo too.


 

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  posted on 6/16/2007 at 03:19 PM
quote:
I try to avoid "remastered" in most instances. They're goosed up in the treble and bass, highly compressed and many sound harsh and downright annoying. "Can we have everything louder than everything else?".
I wasted lots of time and $$ on purchasing remasters through the past few years only to realize that most of those discs sounded far worse than the originals, (Zeppelin, ABB, Van Halen, Deep Purple to name a few) so I've went back and re-purchased the older "first pressing" discs.
Granted though, I listen on a decent 2-channel home stereo; the remasters will sound more appealing to many in car stereos and boom boxes etc.


And you listen with tone control switched off, correct?

 

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  posted on 6/22/2007 at 01:53 AM
Before we condemn CD's and cry for analog let us not forget one very important fact. CD's and digital audio have allowed trading to become a viable and credible force in the music world due primarily to the negligble loss in quality that occurs through generations of copies

[Edited on 6/22/2007 by marionsindorf]

 

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  posted on 6/22/2007 at 07:35 AM
quote:
guess i'll stick with the first cd i ever bought,back in 1987,dark side of the moon.wow,that was 20 years ago!


Hmm...take a look at that cd; if it's all black, and says "Made In Japan", you have an original "japan for us" pressing, and often they are the best available on CD....but only if the matrix DOESN'T have a "TO" in it...the matrix being the numbers around the inside tiny circle.

quote:


Cool. That was a great first one.

Mine was the James Gang's 15 greatest Hits. I actually bought it before I even owned a CD player. Just getting ready I guess...

It was 16 Greatest Hits on the LP, but they had to chop one off to get it to fit on the CD. So they did, and just changed the name.

Boy. Now there was some evil foreboding...

Speaking of Dark Side, I bought the 20th Anniversary edition way back in 1992. It came in a little CD sized box, with color pics of the band and a cool lyric book.

And it sounds so good that there is no need at all to replace it. I can not imagine it ever sounding better. Regardless of what the "moneyheads" try to tell me.

[Edited on 6/16/2007 by les_paul_sunburst]


The worst cd version of DSOTM available is that 20th anniversary edition...it's compressed all to hell....there is sooo many better versions out there, even for the frugal consumer. Heck the regular US/Canadian pressing from the late 80's is much better, and you can find that at a second hand cd store. It may not have the "extras"...lyric book, photos...but the most important part of the cd, the sound, makes up for it.


CDs are now being made to sound good on cheap equipment, and they do cause listener fatique because they are too loud... so don't trade your old cd in for that new "remastered and expanded" cd, or you might regret is, especially if you ever hear them compared.

Here's a link to a first pressing of DSOTM...you'll notice in the description it mentiions the matrix having "TO" in it...that means it's not as sonically good as the ones without "TO" in the matrix...it was a pressing plant problem causing the differences.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PINK-FLOYD-JAPAN-1ST-DARK-SIDE-MOON-CD-OBI-CP35-3017_W0 QQitemZ320128550042QQihZ011QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem

Now a non-TO version of that cd sells for over $100 on ebay, and it's considered the "holy grail" of DSOTM copies...but wait!

IF you don't wanna pay that much, look for the one I mentioned earlier...the Japan for US pressing, without "TO" in the matrix. It's digitally identical to the Japan for Japan shown on the ebay link above...but the version without "TO" in the matrix.... it's just made to sell in the US.

Here's a link to one that sold just the other day;

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pink-Floyd-Dark-Side-of-the-Moon-Japan-Blackface-CD_W0Q QitemZ170123154537QQihZ007QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIt em


The price is very reasonable..hence the BIN was used...this cd sells anywhere from $30-60 on ebay...but only without the "TO" in the matrix, I can't stress that enough.


There's lots to be learned about the older cds, and the earlier Japan pressings are starting to go up in price, yet you can find them at second hand stores for cheap...it's a fun hobby.

FYI for Floyd fans; the best pressing of Meddle is considered to be the first Mobile Fidelity Gold pressing..MFSL, Ultradisc...the one made in Japan. The second pressing of the MFSL is made in the US, and it's a close second, but audiophiles feel the first Ultradisc is slightly better.

The Wall's best pressing is a bit of a debate; the original Japan for US, the same black face as the DSOTM on the second ebay link...is highly regarded, but it's not clearly liked by everyone over the Canadian C2K pressing, which was replaced by the remastered stuff. Both pressings are great, with teh Canadian being easier to find, usually under $30.

The best WYWH is expensive...it's the "two track" version that was originally put out in Japan, and made again for the Japan for USA pressing. The original five tracks are narrowed down to two tracks, almost like playing the album then flipping sides, which is probably why they did that.

Anyhow, it's the "holy grail" of WYWH pressings, hard to find. The Japan for Japan one is obviously hard to find here, and the Japan for USA pressing ain't much easier, despite it being released in North America....the best way to tell if you have one, is to put it on and check the track listing.

Here's on on ebay...sit down before you view it if high prices surprise you ;


http://cgi.ebay.com/Pink-Floyd-Wish-You-Were-Here-Japan-35DP4-Japan-CD_W0QQ itemZ300122584205QQihZ020QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte m


Here's a completed one, and yes, even the audiophiles I hang with thought the price was high....


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150125266550

The guy who won the second one, is the one selling it on the first link...I guess he burned it and decided to recoup his cash.


The best Animals pressing is considered to be the first Japan pressing, with 32DP in the matrix...the best sounds so much better than any other pressing. The later pressings have a "limp" bass, but not that early pressing...I only have a cdr of it, but it's good enough.

I have the other pressings mentioned above, including both Walls mentioned, and I have compared them to others only to find myself agreeing with the audiophiles...the quieter, earlier pressings have more warmth and better sonics than the later stuff, although it's hard to find a bad pressing of a Floyd cd..the only one I know of, is that 20th Anniversary DSOTM, it's the pits.

I hope this helps any interested Floyd fans, if you wanna learn more about which cd pressings are better than others, go to this website, and start reading...


http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php


I have the same user name there as I do here, so say hi if you do register at Steve's, and mention you're from here. There's some great Allman related threads there, and you can find out what pressings of ABB stuff the audiophiles prefer as well...it's interesting stuff if you're deeply into music.

 

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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 02:36 AM
quote:
CDs are now being made to sound good on cheap equipment

Where did you get this stupid idea?

quote:
so don't trade your old cd in for that new "remastered and expanded" cd, or you might regret is, especially if you ever hear them compared.




I did trade my old Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Budgie etc. cd's mastered from lousy production tapes for the new "remastered" ones and don't regret it eventhough the equipment I listen to them on isn't cheap.

 

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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 09:36 AM
quote:
quote:
CDs are now being made to sound good on cheap equipment

Where did you get this stupid idea?

quote:
so don't trade your old cd in for that new "remastered and expanded" cd, or you might regret is, especially if you ever hear them compared.




I did trade my old Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Budgie etc. cd's mastered from lousy production tapes for the new "remastered" ones and don't regret it eventhough the equipment I listen to them on isn't cheap.


The "stupid idea" as you call it, comes from facts...it's not opinion like your response. Audio engineers are the ones pointing it out, and I've done comparisons to prove it myself.

Have you listened to the vinyl versions of these cds? Probably not, but if you did, you'd hear that cds are now mastered LOUDly, to sound better on cheaper equipment, in your car etc.

I posted a link to where this info can be looked at, and digested, but if you wanna remain ignorant that's your decision.

The Sabbath cds you replaced were probably the North America WB issue...they do suck, but the remasters you laud are crap as well...compressed, noise reduction, smiley face EQ and LOUD..it's all there yet you don't hear it on your stereo that "ain't cheap", which means it's a crap stereo that isn't cheap, or more likely, your ears don't know the difference.

Have you done comparisons between releases, or do you just count on your memory to decide which is better? If memory, then you're cheating yourself.

There's lots of info on people comparing different pressings, and while taste is relative, recognising LOUD mastering and compression isn't.

Here's a thread on Paranoid sound comparisons;

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=86247&highlight=sabb ath


IF you wanna actually take the time to read about your favourite bands releases, then check out this thread on Deep Purple;
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=91255&highlight=sabb ath

Now the Zeppelin remasters aren't bad, they're not LOUD and although there is more compression than on the original cd/vinyl releases, it's more of a personal choice than the others...I know some who love the remasters, and others who don't.

These new cd remasters from most bands lack warmth, they're as cold as a witches tit....but for those unfamiliar with vinyl, it's not something you can explain, you just have to hear the better, "warmer more balanced" versions before you'll understand.

OR, you could just wallow in ignorance and argue with me based on your non-existant comparisons and limited experience... it's your call....but I think it's worth it for you, and every music fan, to read and learn about what's being done with modern mastering.


http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm


http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=105225&highlight=lou d+mastering+examples

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=24541&highlight=loud +mastering+examples

Lastly, a link to the forum's guru, Steve Hoffman explaining what bad digital compression sounds like...if you only read one link that I've posted, this should be the one;

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=257549&postcount=1

 

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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 11:40 AM
The worst cd version of DSOTM available is that 20th anniversary edition...it's compressed all to hell....there is sooo many better versions out there, even for the frugal consumer. Heck the regular US/Canadian pressing from the late 80's is much better, and you can find that at a second hand cd store. It may not have the "extras"...lyric book, photos...but the most important part of the cd, the sound, makes up for it.

So you're saying that compression was being used on CDs way back in 1992? When did this practice actually start?

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 01:41 PM
quote:
quote:
bring back analog !


YES!

I've been listening to some old vinyl that I hadn't listened to in years. The range and the stereo separation is so much better.
The two albums I've been listening to are Dave Mason is Alive and Neil Youngs' Everybody Knows This Nowhere



You guys are crazy. LOL. Vinyl was never great. I can hear the freaking needle dragging along the groove. The cds you bought just weren't mastered right.

Rip the cd to your hard drive and noramlize it to a higher volume. Or just up the dial on your stereo and play with your eq.

You do have a point though about the over reliance on digital by many artists today.

Wow, Musical beds, I will get back to your post and follow those links. Thanks.

 

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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 08:18 PM
quote:
The "stupid idea" as you call it, comes from facts...it's not opinion like your response. Audio engineers are the ones pointing it out, and I've done comparisons to prove it myself.

Have you listened to the vinyl versions of these cds? Probably not, but if you did, you'd hear that cds are now mastered LOUDly, to sound better on cheaper equipment, in your car etc.


I wasn't talking about vinyl, I was comparing the sound quality of the Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Budgie, Uriah Heep, Ten Years After etc cd's released in the 1980's to that of their respective remasters which apart from being mastered louder (nothing wrong with that) have much more signal present.


quote:
The Sabbath cds you replaced were probably the North America WB issue...they do suck, but the remasters you laud are crap as well...compressed, noise reduction, smiley face EQ and LOUD..it's all there yet you don't hear it on your stereo that "ain't cheap", which means it's a crap stereo that isn't cheap, or more likely, your ears don't know the difference.


Oh, I see. So because I don't agree with you on the sound quality of the early cd releases which were mastered from production tapes when compared to the remasters mastered from the original master tapes, it's either that my expensive sound system is crap or, more likely, I'm hearing impaired. Fair enough. LMAO.
So what you're saying is that the remastered cd's mastered from the original mastertapes are designed to sound better than the cd's mastered from production tapes when played on car stereo's, cheap equipment or expensive equipment that's crap, while the latter will sound superior when played on expensive sound systems that ain't crap. Did I get it right?

quote:
Have you done comparisons between releases, or do you just count on your memory to decide which is better? If memory, then you're cheating yourself.


I have compared the sound quality of different releases and to my ears the remasters sound vastly superior to their predecessors, so according to your convoluted logic either my expensive sound system is crap or I'm hearing impaired.



quote:
Lastly, a link to the forum's guru, Steve Hoffman explaining what bad digital compression sounds like...if you only read one link that I've posted, this should be the one;

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=257549&postcount=1




I think I've been to that forum and seem to recallhaving seen loads of the same nonsense posted there that you've conveyed to this forum. Bottom line, when it comes to music I tend to trust my ears rather than "opinions" of self-proclaimed gurus trying to talk me into buying their stuff.

 

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  posted on 6/23/2007 at 09:32 PM
Rip the cd to your hard drive and noramlize it to a higher volume. Or just up the dial on your stereo and play with your eq.


EEK! Normalizing cds just ruins them imo, and making them louder is unneccessary, if youre stereo system has a volume knob. I'll play with the EQ if needed, but usually only on bootlegs... with most cds I prefer the flat transfer which is what you find from the early Japanese and West German cds, with only the odd one needing EQ...but your mileage may vary.


quote:
I wasn't talking about vinyl, I was comparing the sound quality of the Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Budgie, Uriah Heep, Ten Years After etc cd's released in the 1980's to that of their respective remasters which apart from being mastered louder (nothing wrong with that) have much more signal present.


Why master something "louder"? Are you;
A/ Partially deaf
B/ in possession of a stereo without a volume knob
C/ happy with ear bleeding music with a small dynamic range?

The reason I bring up vinyl is because it's more warm and natural sounding than digital recordings, and that's the way many of us rock fans first heard and raved about the albums...so to hear them compressed, LOUD and lacking the dynamic range of the vinyl is blasphemy, and it gives me headaches, it's too "BRIGHT", lacking the subtleties I fell in love with....you might think you're hearing it more "clearly", but really you're just being spoonfed the music with less dynamic range, so of course you think it's clearer, it's being pushed in your face...but it's at the expense of the range.

quote:
Oh, I see. So because I don't agree with you on the sound quality of the early cd releases which were mastered from production tapes when compared to the remasters mastered from the original master tapes, it's either that my expensive sound system is crap or, more likely, I'm hearing impaired. Fair enough. LMAO.
So what you're saying is that the remastered cd's mastered from the original mastertapes are designed to sound better than the cd's mastered from production tapes when played on car stereo's, cheap equipment or expensive equipment that's crap, while the latter will sound superior when played on expensive sound systems that ain't crap. Did I get it right?


Yep, and the reason is, the "production" tapes have more dynamic range as they aren't as LOUD....but in some cases, done right, the remastered discs do offer better sound. The original Japanese and West German pressings were often flat transfers from the master when the record company could find them, lol, so they will sound better than later USA pressings from the late 80's, early 90's, which were generally made with production copies.

Here's the thing though...these production copies were made from masters in the 70's.... so often they have more warmth and depth than the digital copies made in the late 90's and this decade, because the master tapes have deteriorated since the 70's...they have to bake them etc, just to be able to use them...you must be aware of that. So let's say the production tapes from the 70's that were used for 80's cds, have the same quality as the digital ones from the 00's due to the aging problem.

Now if the new cds were made as flat transfers from the original masters, I'd be right in there buying truckloads...but they're not.

Look at it this way; when a cd isn't a flat transfer like the original vinyl was, it means someone has decided FOR you, how it will sound "better" than the original vinyl with their "tweaks". As you know, taste is relative...wouldn't you rather have a "flat transfer" copy that YOU can decide how it sounds, instead of someone "remastering" it to the point where you can't EVER get it to sound like you want because they compressed it, limited it, and EQ'd it to death to get their sound....and killed any warmth the music originally had?

The LOUD cds have less dynamic range...this is simple science; you have a range of sound, if you make the sound LOUDER across the board, it has less range because there is something called...distortion.

Because you're too egotistical to bother seeking knowledge from the links, I'll post the last one here because it explains it clearly, in terms everyone can understand;

I want you to go stand in front of a glass door or window. Are you there? Now, move closer to the window, concentrating on your face. When your nose just hits the glass, stop moving. On a CD master, this is the "peak" point; the loudest point on the master that you can go without running into gross distortion. The glass prevents you from going any further. It is like a "wall".

So, your face (at this point) is still basically your face (if I looked at you from the OTHER SIDE OF THE GLASS I would recognize you). Now, let's pretend that the back of your head is the "quietest" area, and the tip of your nose is the loudest. This is your dynamic range. Just like the dynamics of music in the real world, even the loudest rock & roll. Got it?

OK. Now, push closer to the window and smush your face against the glass. Owww. Hurt? Well, your face is distorting and still it is not breaking the glass (or getting any louder) just distorting. If I were to look at you from the other side of the glass I might not recognize you any more.

This is what happens to music when it is digitally compressed. It's a sound I hate with a passion. If you think your nose and face hurts, this is what is happening to our favorite music when it is "remastered" for shear volume.



That explains it well, eh?

quote:
I have compared the sound quality of different releases and to my ears the remasters sound vastly superior to their predecessors, so according to your convoluted logic either my expensive sound system is crap or I'm hearing impaired.


Well, it could be that you're comparing crap with remastered crap...as you said, production tapes were used and sometimes they were 2nd gen tapes, made of another pro-tape...so that's the third option, one which doesn't hurt your feelings so much. The original Sabbath/Purple WB American/Canadian issues are **** , so yeah, maybe the new remasters sound better, but I bet if you compared the original Japanese pressings to the remaster you'd at least understand what I'm saying, maybe not agree, but they are much better than the original American pressings, and...since they are often flat transfer with no EQing... they're better for my ears, and most people who appreciate depth, than the new remasters.


quote:
I think I've been to that forum and seem to recallhaving seen loads of the same nonsense posted there that you've conveyed to this forum. Bottom line, when it comes to music I tend to trust my ears rather than "opinions" of self-proclaimed gurus trying to talk me into buying their stuff.


If your ears are happy, good for you, but people need to be informed so they can make they're own decisions based on facts, and the facts are as I stated; modern cds are made with less dynamic range, because they sound better on stereos that don't have a great range...ie, cheaper stereos. It's simple science, argue all you want but facts are facts.

Lastly, you saw what you wanted on Steve's site, the sign of a closed mind.

Enjoy lauding the record companies for thinking for you, but I'll stick to understanding music more than some suit and advise others to do the same before the industry is killed by morons with ties pumping out crappy music with no range.

So to all reading this;

Quality systems can handle the dynamic range well, and audiophiles generally don't mind using the volume knob so knowing which releases to go after saves time and money, although as this info gets out, the rarer "holy grail" recordings are going up in price, so it can be a pricey hobby if you aren't prepared to go hunting at second hand brick and mortar stores yourself.

IF you are, you'll be surprised at how many people buy into the "remasters are better" simply because the record company tells them that..., I know I did at one time....so people dump their old cd issues, and often don't release they had a japanese 1st pressing made for USA, which sounds more dynamic than their remaster... and you pick it up for regular second hand price because most second hand cd stores don't differentiate between pressings, although a few do, usually the places that are familiar with vinyl and it's different pressings which affect quality.


Anyone here notice that they don't listen to music as much as they used to? Do ya notice your ears getting "tired" easily, and you're thinking it's aging?

I ask, because these are effects of LOUD mastering, and it's called "listener fatigue"....I thought because I'm nearing 40 my ears couldn't handle music like they used to, but then I learned about the newer cd mastering and realised what was what, and now I'm back to listening to music 24/7.

Check out the links I posted, and no, you don't have to go whole hog buying early Japanese pressings, or gold audiophile discs (some suck, so learn with ones aren't smiley faced eq'd)...you can just stick with unremastered stuff, and stay away from the "brighter" remasters, while learning which remasters are worth it.






 

____________________
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.

 
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