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Author: Subject: Is the “Black Hearted Woman” coda “The Other One”?

Peach Master





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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 12:37 AM
Opinions?

Seems like it became “The Other One”, was it from the outset? The original album version barely gets started.

 
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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 06:58 AM
Sounds like it could be. There is a long coda on Peakin' At The Beacon, their worst selling new album. It's one the highlights of that CD.

 

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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 07:09 AM
https://youtu.be/aIuYg1idDnY

[Edited on 3/28/2020 by blackey]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 01:20 PM
quote:
Opinions?

Seems like it became “The Other One”, was it from the outset? The original album version barely gets started.

No, it's something that was added in the 2000s, influenced by Warren's time with Phil Lesh. I don't know what year they started doing it exactly. I know they were doing the Other One jam in 2009, and that as late as 2004, they were still using the original 'bolero' ending without The One One.

 

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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 03:39 PM
I thought to ask for people’s opinions when I was watching a 1998 show with Dickey and Jack. The coda they did seemed a lot like “The Other One” to me. I do realize that it did get longer at some point with Warren and Derek together, but it didn’t really seem to change the basic underlying theme from whenever they started playing it live in the 1990s through the end. That’s how it sounds to my ears. I was just wondering what others thought.

Marley, I am not familiar with the “bolero” reference. Can you expand on that?

Would be awesome to hear other people’s thoughts on this one...

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 04:48 PM
Warren's reply in an interview for the Cream of The Crop release. The link includes a snippet of of the jam from that release.

https://www.jambase.com/article/warren-haynes-allman-brothers-band-intervie w

JAMBASE: As you noted — and this comes through really well on Cream Of The Crop — the band was starting to open up older Allman Brothers songs in different and exciting ways. “Black Hearted Woman” was one of my favorites. It was a cool song to hear from the earliest era of the band, but when you guys opened it up with that monster, galloping jam segment — starting about this year I think — it became a highlight every time it turned up in a set.

WH: We were looking for any opportunity to open songs up, and to allow exploration and improvisation in a way that was different than what we had been doing before. There’s an inherent charm that comes with opening up staples like “Liz Reed” or “Whipping Post,” but we wanted to go beyond that, too, and open up songs that the band hadn’t really been exploring for decades. We had a lot of conversations back then: What do we do with this, what do we do with that?

So “Black Hearted Woman,” yeah, it’s so fun to play, but it was always so short — it was over before you knew it. A lot of songs in the repertoire got looked at that way: how can we take these and make them longer? And some worked and some didn’t, but it’s a good example of the overall excitement and interest in doing this that the band had at that time.One of the other things I’ll point out, too, is that there are a lot of covers over the course of these four discs. Many of them are not covers you’d normally associate with a typical Allman Brothers Band show, and some of them we played only a handful of times more while some of them were just starting to be played then and stayed in the repertoire. I think that reflected back to a time when the Allman Brothers were just beginning and interpreting a lot of outside material. A lot of people associate the doing of that with the Grateful Dead — they played a lot of outside songs — but some of the biggest Allman Brother songs from a live performance perspective, including “Statesboro Blues” and “Stormy Monday” and “You Don’t Love Me” and “Done Somebody Wrong,” those were blues songs that they had put their own stamp on. So, we looked at taking some other songs that we could put that version of the band’s stamp on — songs we had never tried.





 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 05:01 PM
quote:
I thought to ask for people’s opinions when I was watching a 1998 show with Dickey and Jack. The coda they did seemed a lot like “The Other One” to me. I do realize that it did get longer at some point with Warren and Derek together, but it didn’t really seem to change the basic underlying theme from whenever they started playing it live in the 1990s through the end. That’s how it sounds to my ears. I was just wondering what others thought.

Marley, I am not familiar with the “bolero” reference. Can you expand on that?

Would be awesome to hear other people’s thoughts on this one...

Over the years I've heard a few people compare the jam section of BHW to Bolero by Maurice Ravel — they both have a simple theme that gets repeated again and again as the intensity builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhhkGyJ092E

quote:
I thought to ask for people’s opinions when I was watching a 1998 show with Dickey and Jack. The coda they did seemed a lot like “The Other One” to me.
The other thing to emphasize here is that the end sections of The Other One and BHW just sound similar. I'm not sure if they're in the same key or anything, but they're not that different. You might think you heard it earlier for that reason. And I think the '90s ABB sometimes included Other One snippets during long True Gravity jams. But I don't think this Other One jam became a permanent part of Black Hearted Woman until 2009.

[Edited on 3/28/2020 by Marley]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/28/2020 at 05:04 PM
Yes, this was a version they were adapting and playing in the early 2000's.

Watched a version yesterday from their appearance at Farm Aid in September 2007.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 07:52 AM
I could be wrong but I thought this arrangement was a nod to a few live cuts of BHW the boys did in 70. Isn’t there an extended jam on BHW from American U 12/13/70 official release? I was under the impression Warren listened to that and reinstated it...
 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 08:04 AM
That was my impression too TTFool - the copy I have is from Love Valley - a listenable-at-best cassette gem w/the long jam at the end - sure wish there was an archive-quality copy - no complaints

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 09:14 AM
That’s right Stephen! Wasn’t America Univ....the Love Valley show, absolutely! I always had that on my Old IPOD regardless of the poor sound quality bc it was such a spark of inspiration. Given their interactions w The Dead in ‘70, maybe they did inspire it. Stephen and I win ABB for the day....now the others in this thread have to dig out their copy, listen and draw their own conclusions haha.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 09:18 AM
right on bro!
Haven’t listened to it in ages - gotta turn it up & listen closely ,but never made the connection to The Other One in the Love Valley BHW
Of course I also don’t hear Jimi’s TSFTSun on the EAP Mtn Jam either (that everyone says follows BO’s solo) - so I may not be best to ask

[Edited on 3/29/2020 by Stephen]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 09:49 AM
The Love Valley version is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrdAyN8A5AU

It doesn't sound like The Other One to me either, but it does have an outro jam more like the 2000s/2010s ABB versions.

quote:
Of course I also don’t hear Jimi’s TSFTSun on the EAP Mtn Jam either (that everyone says follows BO’s solo) - so I may not be best to ask


That's pretty clear. Duane and Dickey play the melody of Third Stone it when the band comes back in after Berry's solo and they keep playing that for a minute or so while the song slows down going into the Will the Circle Be Unbroken section. On the other hand it took me forever to pick up on the "Frere Jacque" quote in Whipping Post.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/29/2020 at 10:14 AM
Has always been my weirdness alright
Now the TSFTSun that DB & GS incorporated into Liz Reed in their live shows - that is the one I know, & to my ears bears little resemblance to that part of Mtn Jam
- must be an inner ear blockage of some sort - just made a friendly hale to Rainy, & best to you too Marley as another long-timer here
Good ol Sunday morning...

*Also, thx for the BHW link, that’s a large sound improvement over my copy!

[Edited on 3/29/2020 by Stephen]

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 3/30/2020 at 12:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5NCUsM8gwo

This is a version with Dickey and Jack in 1997. It sounds like a sped-up "The Other One" to me. I listened to one from the 1997 Beacon Run with Warren and Dickey that was pretty similar today. Also, in that set of Beacon shows, they did a "St. Stephen" outro from "Liz Reed". Obviously, they also did the "Franklin's Tower" intro to "Blue Sky" for a while, too.

Thanks for everyone's insights...

Here's a reference point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CH0k946by4 from the source. The part in between Weir's verses has the same looping beat, the ABB just put more muscle in it.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/30/2020 at 08:10 AM
quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5NCUsM8gwo

This is a version with Dickey and Jack in 1997. It sounds like a sped-up "The Other One" to me. I listened to one from the 1997 Beacon Run with Warren and Dickey that was pretty similar today. Also, in that set of Beacon shows, they did a "St. Stephen" outro from "Liz Reed". Obviously, they also did the "Franklin's Tower" intro to "Blue Sky" for a while, too.

Thanks for everyone's insights...

Here's a reference point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CH0k946by4 from the source. The part in between Weir's verses has the same looping beat, the ABB just put more muscle in it.

That's what I was saying about these two song bits inherently being similar, which they played up when they started doing the actual OO jam. And yes, they started adding more Dead stuff to the setlists after Garcia died. Warren and Allen were big fans and it continued even after they left. I remember in the acoustic Elizabeth Reed in 1998 Oteil started his bass solo by playing Fire on the Mountain, for example.

 

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  posted on 4/17/2020 at 04:09 PM
For a couple years I swear setlists would be written as Black Hearted Woman/Other One Jam and I didn't get it until I was at a show and during that part one of those pretentious Deadheads who had one of those GD leather jackets pointed to the GD logo and told me that the Allmans were playing Dead stuff and I thought to myself finally "ohhhh, that's what the Other One Jam means..."

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/17/2020 at 07:23 PM
The original band often would stretch out on a little jam at the end of Statesboro Blues. I can't remember with certainty, but I think I remember the early 90's band also would do that after Statesboro too.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 4/18/2020 at 12:24 AM
Here is another one (or an “other one”) that I remembered. On Ludlow Garage, is part of Berry’s bass solo on “Mountain Jam” a quote of Lesh’s bass line in “The Eleven”?
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/18/2020 at 09:28 AM
quote:
The Love Valley version is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrdAyN8A5AU



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