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Author: Subject: How legal is B&P and trading?

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 12/13/2004 at 11:46 PM
I'm almost convinced of the legality of these, as its not copyrighted, no finacial gain, etc. My father, however, is not. And seeing as how I'd be using his stuff to trade + all, he's worried about that. Would this be bootlegging, like http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp#bootleg? I'm really looking foward to starting my B&P, just one more road block .

THANK YOU =D

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2004 at 11:48 PM
They are all legal. There are people on this site much more knowledgeable than I as to the exact letter of the ABB policy, but the long and short of it is they're legal.
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 12:00 AM
once you get your first ABB show, thats it you'll want more , then you'll want Dead shows, Mule shows, DTB shows.......and thats BnP's... then starts the downward spiral into trading.
"Just Do It"
it's fun
and theres good people around these parts
Merry Christmas from Downunder.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 12:05 AM
oh, i know its gonna be a downward spiral, but WHAT a downward spiral . Just need to convince father here Can't wait.....

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 02:37 AM
It's quite legal as long as the band allows it, which the ABB does. Have your dad look at this.

From the FAQ page:

The ABB allows one-to-one trading of audience tapes of their shows. This is to allow fans to share the music with each other. No one can sell copies of shows recorded by any means or exchanged through any electronic or recorded medium.


Here's the link to the above, scroll to the bottom of the page.

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=inde x&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1#32

Check out the threads in the trades section of the forum about how to get started.

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 04:05 AM
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18 USC 2319A} prohibits the unauthorized recording, manufacture, distribution, or trafficking in sound recordings or videos of artists' live musical performances. Violators can be punished with up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think trading is authorized because the band has explicity stated that they're okay with it. Even if I'm wrong and it's still not legal, nobody's going to make a federal case out of it when the band doesn't object.

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 07:06 AM
quote:
I'm almost convinced of the legality of these, as its not copyrighted, no finacial gain, etc. My father, however, is not. And seeing as how I'd be using his stuff to trade + all, he's worried about that. Would this be bootlegging, like http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp#bootleg? I'm really looking foward to starting my B&P, just one more road block .

THANK YOU =D
Just be sure to keep your B&P's with bands that allow taping and trading and you'll be all set. There are many shows from other bands that get offered up around the net that are not legal to trade so, I can understand your fathers concern.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 09:36 AM
The only thing the band seems to frown upon is downloading shows directly from the Internet. They recently made the Meadowbrook show available for download through a site called connect.com, so perhaps they are even reconsidering that policy. The ABB have always been very fan-friendly about allowing people to swap recordings as long as no money changes hands.

If you want higher-quality recordings, you can always buy them from the band through hittinthenote.com, so everybody really gets what they want with this arrangement.

 
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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 09:42 AM
your fathers concern probably has something to do with the Doobie Brothers and Whats Happening.



most jambands allow taping and distibution. next time you or your dad goes to a show, take a look around for all the taping poles....you will find plenty of Dead, Phish, ABB, Hot Tuna, Mule, Derek Trucks, etc being circulated. As long as the band is ok with taping, you are fine.

The fans on this board (generally) dont allow 'bootlegs' to be openly traded, so maybe if you can convince your father that you will stay on this site you will be fine.

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 09:48 AM
quote:
your fathers concern probably has something to do with the Doobie Brothers and Whats Happening.



Linnie,that's classic!
Was it Takin' to the Streets when his POS tape recorder
fell out?
Me and my brother watched that show religiously!

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:02 AM
connect.com???

wow, they have the IL from 8-29-04 for $10, on HTN it's $25. Why did they do this? Looks like you can also buy each individual track off the IL. soooo..... a 34+ min version of liz reed for 0.99 cents.

They are also selling "track 16" as an applause track for 0.99 as well. hehehe
but if you buy the whole album it's only $10 - this would appear to be a download so you don't get the official CD's - but I'm still surprised they did this. Anyone know why - was it a benifit.

I wish the ABB would sell they're IL's like mule does - instant gratification, as this is almost what they are doing on connect.com

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:30 AM
As I understand it, the connect.com offering is an ABB experiment with "paid downloading." If it works, they may do it again.

Speaking as someone who doesn't have a cd burner, there is certainly a difference between offering music files for download and presenting people with ready-made cds, like Instant Live. I spoke to a fan recently who had downloaded some shows from a band site, and his opinion was that by the time he had printed out labels, burned the discs, and so forth, he would rather have paid extra for a nicer-looking package than what he ended up with.

Even though I suppose the connect.com thing is "competing" with Kid Glove on a certain level, we definitely support spreading the Allman Brothers Band's music in any and all ways.

 
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True Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:38 AM
I agree Rob, I would rather have the pre-packaged versions - and I would prefer to support HTN.

It would be nice to offer both... downloads for $12-15 for those who don't care about packaging (or that quick fix) and the "packaged" versions for those who want something a little more permanent.

but anyway... We all appreciate everything HTN has done. and I look forward to the fox box of IL's.

Peace

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:41 AM
Anyone know the format for downloads from the connect site?

MP3?

FLAC?

SHN?

Something else?

Just wondering.........

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:54 AM
I think this is it - found here:
http://www.designinteract.com/news/11681.html

quote:
The store will feature ATRAC3 audio compression that effectively reduces the size of audio files while delivering superb sound quality. With ATRAC3 compression, music can be recorded and compressed to 132kbps (kilobits per second), allowing consumers to store more high fidelity audio on CD recordable, MD, Hi-MD or Memory Stick media.



which seems right considering it's a Sony project....

I just want FLAC (or some other lossless format)

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 11:02 AM
"With ATRAC3 compression, music can be recorded and compressed to 132kbps (kilobits per second), allowing consumers to store more high fidelity audio on CD recordable, MD, Hi-MD or Memory Stick media."

OK, so ATRAC3 is just 3 percent bigger than MP3s at 128.....what is there to make it better than MP3?

CRR

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 11:16 AM
While I don't really like this report, page 27 of 29 seems to indicate a better high frequency performance for ATRAC3 over MP3.

Caution - if on dial-up, it is a big .pdf file!

http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/tech/lab/ITS_test_report.pdf

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 11:17 AM
well, it's supposed to be a better compression alogorythm (spelling?)...

But space is becoming less of an issue, so..... this format just make a hassle for you to listen to the music. you CAN burn regular CD's (at the reduced quality) or burn them as ATRAC files.... which won't play on any devices except ones you ge from Sony. And not even all sony devices... Home and Car CD players can't play them, just some of their portable units.

Sony has a history of making bad policy decisions IMO. I love certain products of theirs, and detest others... looks like this goes on the detest pile.

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 11:25 AM
quote:
While I don't really like this report, page 27 of 29 seems to indicate a better high frequency performance for ATRAC3 over MP3.

Caution - if on dial-up, it is a big .pdf file!

http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/tech/lab/ITS_test_report.pdf


and if I'm not mistaken - it's at the lower bit rate... Once you take the bitrate up to 160 or 192 MP3 you lose the "edge" but keep the usage hassles. As I said, the space you save between the file sizes is becoming a non-problem.

most mp3 encoders dump high frequencies to conserve bandwidth and to eliminate "spike" artifacts.

That chart looks like it cuts out around 16Khz (128Kbs MP3) - My mp3 encoder is set to cut off somewhere between 18-19Khz. On portable media you really aren't going to get a whole lot of difference out of this. ATRAC is sony's copy protection scheme.

Peace

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 11:31 AM
I am an electrical engineer - that's just for background for what's to follow....

All those trade journals I get seem to focus on compression algorithms - probably a good thing for certain transmission media...but like Ross is indicating, storage for the average consumer use is cheap as dirt.

I don't need a quazillion hours of music stored in something the size of the head of a match.

I wonder if a good business plan would be to advertize lossless compression in a device that still holds a "quazillion minus 1" hours of music.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 02:36 PM
I love that number....quazillion.....I'm going to start using it in conversation now.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 03:33 PM
...even bigger than a bazillion.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 04:01 PM
Jim

Can you notate that scientifically

Cheers

Carlos "and what is its square?" Rivera

 

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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 09:32 PM
ONLY because Carlos asked (implying I am not to blame for what follows):

eleventeen
I'm not sure how large this number is, but I'm pretty sure it is between 11 and 21 inclusive. Nominally used to mean any absurd use of a specific number. e.g. "I had to enter a product activation code of 'A ampersand g g L P 7 eleventeen something..."

umpteen
This number is relatively small (usually under 30). It is used in conjunction with a specific task (or task iteration). e.g. "I told you for the umpteenth time - 'No swimming with the sharks!'"

thirty-twelve
I've never used this number, nor have I ever hear it be used. It may be regional. It refers to an indeterminute number between 30 and 59. e.g. "Age the pizza for thirty-twelve days in the frigde before throwing it out."

fourty
Probably the only legally specific non-real number. I've made out many a check for this amount. e.g. "Pay to the order of DishNetwork; Fourty dollars and 84/100."

oodle
This is interesting, as it functions like a single-name 'place-holder number' (dozen, hundred, thousand, million). You may have "oodles of puppies", but you cannot have "an oodle of puppies" or "half an oodle of puppies". So it may never exist in a singular, or fractional form. Unlike 'plethora', oodle does not have a connotation of excess. e.g. "I have oodles of trading cards, but you have a plethora."

zillion
Any incomprehensibly large number. For a five-year-old $100 is about equal to "a zillion dollars". For an average adult, this number is certainly greater than 100,000... but it depends on context. e.g. "That company charges zillions if you want them to consult.

bazillion
More than a zillion... possibly as small as 2 zillion.
(can also be spelled bizillion or bahzillion [rare].)

gazillion
Larger than 'bazillion' probably by at least 2 degrees of magnitude. e.g. Algeria's national debt is like umpteen gazillion dollars.
(can also be spelled gahzillion [rare].)

trazillion
Larger even than 'gazillion' (again) by about a factor of 100. This variant is very rare. [specifically, it is 3 degrees of magnitude more rare] e.g. Algeria's national debt is like umpteen gazillion dollars. (can also be spelled trizillion [rare].)

quazillion
This is getting silly. I will also include in this definition "quintzillion". While I'm at it - I'm going to make up "sexzillion" and "heptzillion"; neither of which exist as of C.E. 2002 but will probably crop up as the need for mind-bogglingly-seeming large indeterminite number increases.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2004 at 10:49 PM
quote:
quote:
18 USC 2319A} prohibits the unauthorized recording, manufacture, distribution, or trafficking in sound recordings or videos of artists' live musical performances. Violators can be punished with up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think trading is authorized because the band has explicity stated that they're okay with it. Even if I'm wrong and it's still not legal, nobody's going to make a federal case out of it when the band doesn't object.


And if you get caught, tell them Marley said it was ok.

 

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