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Author: Subject: im sorry..another Dead thread..Jerry vs Duane

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 03:09 AM
its funny to see so many answers from the grateful dead threads ive started..i love ABB but i know there is alot of deadheads on this forum and they are for sure fun to talk to..that why i post so man threads here..much better forum than for exampel philzones forum.. i have another question..im gonna say as always its very child like to compare guitar players with 2 driifrent styles and who is the better..its a matter of taste..i know that for sure..but i and many others i know here many simularities in duane allmans playing and Jerry garcias..im talking about Jerry in the early days from 66-69 now.. yes i know they have diffrent styles..and the way duane played the blues is very diffrent from Mr Garcia..But the way they strechted the song and the jazz influence and the pyschedelic playing i found very simular at times..

I know for sure the allmans where influenced byt the grateful dead in the eearly days..
but to the point..WHO DO YOU FOLKS THINKS IS THE BEST OF THOSE TWO GUITAR HEROES??i think both are very good..my 2 favourite guitar slingers of all time..but No1 for is Jerry Garcia..i think he was more technically in his playing than Duane..listen to the fast runs in live versions of Looks like rain (THE BOBBY WEIR MASTERPIECE) from 78-80..Garcia had the speed of lightning in his playing..im sure he got alot of that from the bluegrass scales..but he could play more styles in my opinion than Duane..Bluesgrass,country,rock,psychedelia,blues,jazz,folk etc..

what do you think deadfreaks and peachheads out there??but no 2 is duane..the solo in stormy monday from the fillmore east album is one of the best blues solos ever..

peace..so long fellows

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 04:40 AM
They're both beautiful players -- different in their approaches but as you say, quite similar in a creative sense as far as improvisation.
I haven't yet heard the three-CD set of a Dead show from the Fillmore in the late 60s-early 70s, that I believe was released maybe two-three years ago -- one person here in the forum thought real highly of it, saying Jerry was at a peak in his playing -- the poster made a wonderful description, calling it "liquid steel." Anybody possibly know this one?

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 05:23 AM
Jerry and Duane were both completely different guitar players, but I would have to go with Duane. I think Duane was a more versatile player, and if you listen to his anthology collection, you can hear that versatility. Again, when the ABB did their extended jams, they actually were tight and went somewhere. Some od the Dead jams just went and never tied back to a song, unless they went right into another song.
 
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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 07:27 AM
well here we go again--allmanfanfromsweden--good morning!!jerry & duane were both awesome,soulful & gifted--each played in a way that lifted your spirit to the heavens --while creating a trance like meditative state for the listener.Both duane & jerry had the tone & tehnical skill to play a variety of styles--too bad duane's life ended at such a young age--we never were able to experience the possible musical direction he might have taken whereas jerry was able to diversify & evolve in the development of his style & sound--yet,despite duane's short life,both he & jerry shared another trait--they were both charismatic leaders & both were "true" hippies--decent,contrarian to the foolish rules imposed by others & gentle,but strong willed about their music & their lives--who's better--to me, each player has his time, place, & moment--overall i wouldn't even dare to try to figure out an answer to that question--love them both with great passion!!!have a nice day!!!

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 07:43 AM
Duane was probably the better guitar player. Just more inventive and utterly amazing.

Jerry played a lot of different styles: r&b, blues, folk, bluegrass, jazz(ish), rock, etc.

Better guitar player: duane

If you're asking for a favorite, jerry. Trucks is the only person who comes close to passing jerry in my personal book of favorites

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 08:18 AM
quote:
Some od the Dead jams just went and never tied back to a song, unless they went right into another song.



You haven't listened to enough GD if you think that... I can name lots of examples where they jammed out and went back into the song.

The difference between the Dead and the ABB during jams is significant; the ABB rarely lose the rhythm structure and generally keep the foundation of the jam intact, where as the Dead didn't do that as much, often stretching the foundations of the song's structure to varying degrees, they are much more "malleable" than the ABB...check out "Playing In the Band" and "Darkstar" for example of them stretching the foundations, AND jamming out and going back into the song.

Check out the time changes and key for "Estimated Prophet" and compare them with "Eyes of the World"...yet the GD jammed Prophet into Eyes regularly; that's an example of the Dead's style that differs from the ABB.

quote:
when the ABB did their extended jams, they actually were tight and went somewhere.


I saw the same comment a few times on the Dead thread, and I strongly disagree; where do the ABB jams go? I mean, they're incredible and amazing, but they almost always lead back into the song...where as the Dead jams might go back into the song..see examples above...or they might go into another song...or they might go into drums and space. To me, that's "going somewhere", in contrast to the ABB format of returning to the same song. They both go somewhere...but the ABB stay on planet Earth where as the Dead usually cruise the solar system....which isn't a commentary on what's better, just my point of view on how they differ.


As for who's better, Duane or Jerry.... I think it's a toss-up, really, because both could play different styles, and both men were excellent players.

In my mind, Duane might have been the better, hotter guitar player, while Jerry was a better musician. Check out the intro to "Teach Your Children" and check out Jerry on the pedal steel, not too many hours after learning it. Check out Jerry's banjo playing on "Old And In The Way". Listen to Garcia and Grisman stuff....Jerry was a musician's musician. But Duane was still the firebrand on the guitar, and he really didn't get the time to shine that Jerry did, so it's my opinion that he was slightly better on electric guitar, and would have shown it had he lived... he was very gifted.

I think that's the best way to differentiate the two, while still giving them both the honours they deserve.

[Edited on 10/18/2006 by musicalbeds]

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 08:46 AM
greetings:

Both good players and musicians, but when you apply the term "songwriter" to the equation. Jerry has an advantage in that department. May they both R.I.P

laters
be blessed
brother james

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 08:52 AM
I go with Duane. Jerry was a great player but Duane was a genius and true innovator. He died at 24 and yet he is still regarded by most experts as one of the five greatest players ever, comparable to Hendrix and Clapton. I don't know why you continue to compare the ABB and the Dead. They share little similarity and the Allmans were NOT influenced by the Dead in the early days. I have never heard of Duane or Gregg or Dickey listening to or being into the Dead who were around for a number of years before the Allmans. The Allmans were influenced by the original blues masters and by the jazz of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Nobody played like Duane. His slide was so sweet and pure it sounded like a human voice. And he could play any other style as well. As for the jam discussion, the Allman jams were always more structured. Songs like Jessica or Mountain Jam or Liz Reed are really suites, multi-part songs with improvisiation within the parts. The structure of the suites holds the song together. The Allman's were also louder and more forceful in their jamming. That's not to say one is better than the other. Just very dfferent. I, and I imagine most people on this site, prefer the ABB and that's why we hang out here.

Doug

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 08:52 AM
Excellent point.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:13 AM
I like this site because we can discuss other bands with knowledge and insight, and for the most part the people on here have intelligent opinions on music in general, ABB and Dead in particular.

Jerry, to my ears, was very different than Duane. In fact, I never would have compared the two. Jerry, even when he was playing the psych blues of the early years, was always a more laid back, loose playing instrumentalist. Duane on the other hand was more hard edge, in your face, knock you down style of player. If anything, I would say the Dickey had more similarities to Jerry than Duane.

It's hard for me to say which one I like better simply because Duane and Jerry aren't on a level playing field. Jerry had decades more material that Duane, and because of that I've heard way more Jerry. And because of that, Jerry is more of a favorite. BUT, if I could step out of my body and take on the role of a guitar player, I would choose Duane. I like his style of playing more so than Jerry. Fits my personality a little better.


Peace

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:13 AM
Very well structured point. I agree 100%!!

Personal preference- Duane. I dislike top 10's and who's better than's.........


as Grand Funk asked...................CAN I GET A WITNESS????

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:16 AM
Listening to Jerry is like sailing the ocean on a warm summer day, just riding the waves. Listening to Duane is like cruising on a Harley on a winding mountain road feeling every turn.

I absolutely, positively love them both...I could not pick a favorite because both have meant so much to my life. The best way to say it is...Jerry was better for The Dead and Duane was better for The ABB...what else is there to say.

This is an ABB site, so I'm sure Duane will be the favorite of more people. If this were The Philzone, I'm quite sure it would be the opposite. I just hope everyone stays civil in their responses, this is music after all, where there are no winners or losers.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:40 AM
_______________________________________________________________________
I don't know why you continue to compare the ABB and the Dead. They share little similarity and the Allmans were NOT influenced by the Dead in the early days.
_______________________________________________________________________

Sorry Doug. Dickey said so himself on his DB and GS DVD from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that came out a year or so ago. He said that he and Berry both listened and were influenced by the Dead. I can definitely understand why they are compared w/ each other. Both were a fantastic blend of rock, blues country, jazz, and psychedelic. Both had two guitars that would weave around each other and play off of each other and everyone else in the band, both had two drummers, both played longer than average songs that would transport your mind, body, and spirit into another galaxy. Sorry you can't see it, but the similarities are there and they are both as good as it gets. I do think that the Bro's were more on the blues side of the track and the Dead were more on the psychadelic side of the track. I think the Bro's were harder edged and the Dead were phatter and more bubbly and danceable. However, they could easily cross over into one anothers turf, meaning the dead could flat out rock when need be and the Bro's could get phat, bubbly, and psychedelic as well.

That being said, given the fact that the Grateful Dead is my favorite band, I gotta go with the Phat Man. The dude played it all as far as instruments, played it all as far as genre's, created a sound that you can pick up on immediately when heard, and was basicly here with us longer and has a larger volume of work. My two favorites are Jerry and Dickey because of the thick, phat, melodic, danceable tone that they seem to be able to evoke from their guitars. Whether its guitars or drums, I really don't care how fast and technically proficient someone is because to me it's about soul, tone, danceable groove, and the mental and physical transportation that their music puts out. Free your mind and your a** will follow and that's exactly what their music does to me.

_______________________________________________________________________
The best way to say it is...Jerry was better for The Dead and Duane was better for The ABB...what else is there to say.
_______________________________________________________________________

No doubt about it and I love 'um both!!


[Edited on 10/18/2006 by TennKev]

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:46 AM
I think comparing Duane and Jerry is unfair, as are most guitarist comparisons. It really comes down to what tickles your ear.

As far as technically speaking Duane is tops. He's much more versatile (just ask Jerry Wexler, I don't think Jerry could have gone on a 10 minute jamm with Herbie Mann), as has been mentioned. Duane can do it all, he can do the jazz improv and the sweet country picking better than just about anyone.

I don't think arguing about the structure of the Dead's jams vs. the Allmans' jams has anything to do with which is a 'better' guitarist, that's another argument alltogether. Same goes for songwriting, that's another argument. Duane's only writing credit (full-band collaborations excluded) was one of the final songs he had recorded and is one the sweetest things I'll ever hear. Everyone in the band seems to agree that, had he lived, he would have brought more material to the band.

If you like Jerry over Duane, that's cool, but that doesn't make him 'better', just means that's a preference of style. I prefer Dickey Betts and Albert King to most guitarists out there, but I don't know if they're 'better' than a lot of guitarists out there.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:46 AM
Look, these Grateful Dead threads really are getting annoying.

Especially how this thread title is worded.

Duane all the way.
Absolutely.
Not even close.

Sometimes Jerry was okay, but he was no Bob Weir.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:47 AM
Simple answer you asked so i am answering Duane..i do not own one Dead CD or record for one reason i did not like the music,i own all the Allman Brothers releases with Duane reason i loved the music..who is the best ?? who cares they were both great players ,same as Derek and Jack Pearson i just like ones playing and not the other but they are Both freeking Great...NO ONE is the Best...time to put this horse in the barn.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 09:58 AM
quote:
Listening to Jerry is like sailing the ocean on a warm summer day, just riding the waves. Listening to Duane is like cruising on a Harley on a winding mountain road feeling every turn.


First of all, were I ever to be worthy enough of a biography, I would want EddieP to write it.

Anyway, Duane Allman hands down. Blows most everybody else away. Jerry was a decent guitar player, but simply not in Duane's league. I never put much stock in polls or rankings, but a while ago Rolling Stone had a bunch and Hendrix was at No. 1 for guitarists while Duane was No. 2. I agreed.


 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 11:46 AM
Not even close......................DA all the way!

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 11:49 AM
Of course Johnny would select Duane for a number of reasons already listed....but to those of you who said a comparison isn't really fair, I agree. It's like comparing , for want of a better description, apples to oranges....depends on your taste and what you're going to use them for.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 12:45 PM
Jerry could only carry Duane's guitar case..............maybe. Not a good comparison
anyway. Two completely different players. Duane actually took the song somewhere.
spdb

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 01:09 PM
quote:
_______________________________________________________________________
I don't know why you continue to compare the ABB and the Dead. They share little similarity and the Allmans were NOT influenced by the Dead in the early days.
_______________________________________________________________________

Sorry Doug. Dickey said so himself on his DB and GS DVD from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that came out a year or so ago. He said that he and Berry both listened and were influenced by the Dead. I can definitely understand why they are compared w/ each other. Both were a fantastic blend of rock, blues country, jazz, and psychedelic. Both had two guitars that would weave around each other and play off of each other and everyone else in the band, both had two drummers, both played longer than average songs that would transport your mind, body, and spirit into another galaxy. Sorry you can't see it, but the similarities are there and they are both as good as it gets. I do think that the Bro's were more on the blues side of the track and the Dead were more on the psychadelic side of the track. I think the Bro's were harder edged and the Dead were phatter and more bubbly and danceable. However, they could easily cross over into one anothers turf, meaning the dead could flat out rock when need be and the Bro's could get phat, bubbly, and psychedelic as well.

That being said, given the fact that the Grateful Dead is my favorite band, I gotta go with the Phat Man. The dude played it all as far as instruments, played it all as far as genre's, created a sound that you can pick up on immediately when heard, and was basicly here with us longer and has a larger volume of work. My two favorites are Jerry and Dickey because of the thick, phat, melodic, danceable tone that they seem to be able to evoke from their guitars. Whether its guitars or drums, I really don't care how fast and technically proficient someone is because to me it's about soul, tone, danceable groove, and the mental and physical transportation that their music puts out. Free your mind and your a** will follow and that's exactly what their music does to me.

_______________________________________________________________________
The best way to say it is...Jerry was better for The Dead and Duane was better for The ABB...what else is there to say.
_______________________________________________________________________

No doubt about it and I love 'um both!!


[Edited on 10/18/2006 by TennKev]


It's possible Dickey and Berry were influenced by the Dead in their pre-ABB incarnation as the Second Coming. I have seen no indication that Duane and/or Gregg were personally in any way influenced by the Dead in their formative years.

Doug

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 01:10 PM
HEY allmanfanfromsweden, WHY DON'T YOU CALL YOURSELF deadfanfromsweden.........
enough with all this crap.... yesterday it was NO GUITAR BOB WEIR, today its Jerry.we all liked Jerry, but do you expect us to take him over Duane........... Go on a dead site and praise Jerry............

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 01:39 PM
HEY allmanfanfromsweden, WHY DON'T YOU CALL YOURSELF deadfanfromsweden.........
enough with all this crap.... yesterday it was NO GUITAR BOB WEIR, today its Jerry.we all liked Jerry, but do you expect us to take him over Duane........... Go on a dead site and praise Jerry............
_______________________________________________________________________

Well.........some of us did prefer Jerry....Lighten up larrider, he can post whatever the he*l he wants to. Are you the friggin' internet nazi, dictating what people can post on these forums? This was supposed to be a friendly discussion w/ people giving opinions without degrading another artist or each other. Most were able to pick a favorite and give their reasons why without degrading the other musician.
_______________________________________________________________________
Jerry could only carry Duane's guitar case..............maybe. Not a good comparison
anyway. Two completely different players. Duane actually took the song somewhere.
spdb

_______________________________________________________________________
Uh yeah......right. Give me a break.

_______________________________________________________________________
I just hope everyone stays civil in their responses, this is music after all, where there are no winners or losers.
_______________________________________________________________________

Looks like that didn't last too long.

_______________________________________________________________________

[Edited on 10/18/2006 by TennKev]

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 01:45 PM
i personally can't compare ANYONE's playing on a level with Duane........

but i do say often, that Duane is my "jerry" when i try to explain WHY i follow the ABB so often........and WHY i hold him in such high regard. Deadheads 'get that'.

(p.s. i'm a total deadhead as well as a peachead, panichead, etc........)

 

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  posted on 10/18/2006 at 01:58 PM
I really love them both - always have, always will.

quote:
Jerry could only carry Duane's guitar case..............maybe. Duane actually took the song somewhere.

That might be the most childish response you could possibly give on this topic. Sounds like someone that's carried a few guitar cases himself and that's why he's so bitter towards Jerry. Talk about keeping it civil, that's just awful. I've enjoyed reading most of the other responses from the mature people out there.



[Edited on 10/18/2006 by DuaneFan56]

 
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