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Author: Subject: Poverty is our worst enemy

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:13 AM
quote:
Before that, I mean


You depict the UK as a place that cares more. In reality, the UK has marginally more generous social benefits i.e. they give the poor a bit more money (it is a more expensive nation to live in). The fact is the UK is like anywhere else in that it has a wide array of viewpoints and reactions.

Also saying that we "blame the poor for their demise" is a blatant falsehood. I have not said anything of the sort. You do a very good job of putting words in peoples' mouths.

Finally, basing you analysis of one nation's poverty from what a few people have said to you is biased, unscholarly, sloppy, and quite possibly a sheer falsehood.

But I am sure you mean well.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:14 AM
quote:
Well I cannot help it if that is the way you are reading it.
Please don't attempt to shift the blame for your thoughtless post on to me. Doug wrote, "Which country is it that poverty does not exist?" implying that someone involved in our discussion had said there was a country where poverty does not exist. You replied, "Some of the pundits here seem to think all except ours."

If I am reading this incorrectly, what am I misunderstanding? Are you saying the implied message of Doug's statement, or your statement are truthful? If so, I would really like to see where anyone implied or said such things because I am missing it. I'm sorry if you might view this exchange as "an endless paradoxical loop of semantical statements". You might very well ignore it, also, which is fine. In my experience, one's actions speak louder than words anyway. Thanks.

Peace.

Erik





[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CEEJ]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:17 AM
quote:
BTW, council houses are nothing like our slums. Most UK citizens live in them all over the country.


Some council houses, like some American projects, are semi decent or decent places to live. Others are hellholes.

Now if you are saying that none of theirs quite compare to let's say the Robert-Taylor (Chicago) or the Redhook Houses (Brooklyn), you would be correct.

You should check out the German variation (Wohnblocks) in Eastern Berlin and other places.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:18 AM
quote:
If I am reading this incorrectly, what am I misunderstanding?


You misunderstood the irony and the humor. Now you are making a big thing out of nothing. Get over it already.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:26 AM
Arrogance is my pet peeve...can ya tell? lolol

Why is it that the people you've apparently spoken to are right, but the one's I have are apparently wrong, making me, in your opinion "biased, unscholarly, sloppy, and quite possibly (guilty of making a) a sheer falsehood? You sure are arrogant to assume that not only myself, but all these other people who you don't know are wrong in their observations, experiences and realities.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:30 AM
quote:
Why is it that the people you've apparently spoken to are right, but the one's I have are apparently wrong,


I have not cited anyone's personal opinion as evidence of anything. You asked me if I knew anyone from there and had visited. I answered you in the affirmative and even added that it did not make me an expert, a rather modest statement that belies your latest insult (arrogance).

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:37 AM
quote:
I have not cited anyone's personal opinion as evidence of anything
And I have not either. You specifically said that my reliance on the people I've talked to about this subject makes me "biased, unscholarly, sloppy, and quite possibly a sheer falsehood.", which are pretty strong terms used to describe my apparent misunderstanding of the way things really are, according to you, KR. You're the one who keeps correcting my interpretation of what I've been told and what I've read. What makes you think you know more than I do about it?

And yea, you are arrogant.(and you and I know I'm not the only one with that opinion around here.
To some that might be a compliment. I just don't happen to like that attitude, myself.

[Edited on 9/13/2005 by musichick3]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:43 AM
quote:
What makes you think you know more than I do about it?


I suppose the same thing that makes you think you know more than I.

quote:
And yea, you are arrogant. To some that might be a compliment. I just don't happen to like that attitude, myself and you and I know I'm not the only one with that opinion around here.


To be arrogant around here one must take a number. Mine is 19, right behind you at 18.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:49 AM
I defend myself when attacked by a sharp tounge. I pride myself on refraining from calling people down on the carpet to make myself feel superior, unless they push me too far, which you seem to enjoy doing. But arrogant is something I'm not.

[Edited on 9/13/2005 by musichick3]

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:52 AM
quote:
You misunderstood the irony and the humor.
I am all for irony and humor. But there is no irony and humor in lies and falsehoods. I will ask again, please show me where your statement has any basis, whatsoever, in truth.
quote:
Now you are making a big thing out of nothing.
Oh, am I? Thanks for filling me in. Really, I am just trying to gain a deeper understanding of the concepts of "irony and humor" as they pertain to this discussion. Clearly to me, that might very well be a big thing.
quote:
Get over it already.
There is nothing to get over, from my perspective. I am still interested, however, in understanding where your statement has any basis in truth. That's all.

Peace.

Erik





[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CEEJ]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:55 AM
quote:
Oh, am I?


Yes.

quote:
But arrogant is something I'm not.


Disagree.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 10:58 AM
Forget arrogant, KR....you are manipulative. I was wrong lolol
I should have recognized the pattern earlier lolol

manipulate:
to influence, manage, use, or control to one's advantage by artful or indirect means. Another pet peeve of mine as well. lolol


[Edited on 9/13/2005 by musichick3]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:02 AM
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Forget arrogant, KR....you are manipulative.


Well if you must smear me, please settle on the appropriate smear.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:04 AM
I have now. Carry on.....

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:06 AM
quote:
I have now. Carry on.....


I shall.

Manipulatively yours,

The arrogant KnowItAllRider

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:10 AM
quote:
quote:
I have now. Carry on.....


I shall.

Manipulatively yours,

The arrogant KnowItAllRider

Don't you think you should it should be KnowItAllReallyDisgustinglyRichRider?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:12 AM
At least I know where I stand in all this now. lolol

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:15 AM
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Don't you think you should it should be KnowItAllReallyDisgustinglyRichRider?


Well you know they called me about housing Katrina victims in one of my mansions. But I cannot have that rabble in my midst! Let them eat cake.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:45 AM
quote:
quote:
Don't you think you should it should be KnowItAllReallyDisgustinglyRichRider?


Well you know they called me about housing Katrina victims in one of my mansions. But I cannot have that rabble in my midst! Let them eat cake.

I hear ya'. I caught a lesser paid associate of mine staring longingly at my Bently the other day, so I had him shot. Then I blamed him for all of societies woes. Then I shot him again.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 11:50 AM
Well you should have had him drawn and quartered as a bullet eats into the bottom line.
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 01:09 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Oh, am I?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



Yes.
Silence can speak volumes for one's character. It's too bad, because this discussion has some interesting and informative elements, as well.

Peace.

Erik

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 01:25 PM
quote:
The reasons for focusing on children are more than traditional and
still pertinent humanitarian concerns for those least able to look after
themselves. New insights from neuroscience and the behavioral and
social sciences underscore the importance of giving children a better
chance in life. Nurturing them in their early years is vital for attack-ing
the worst effects of poverty and may be an effective way to break
the relentless, vicious cycle of poverty that, too often, crosses genera-tions.
Children who live in poverty cannot go to school, do not learn
to read, will have difficulty finding a job, and will have little hope for
their, and their children’s, future. Poverty diminishes people’s spiritu-al
resources, peace of mind, dignity, and freedom to live fully. And,
unfortunately, poverty is like a bad gene—it is inherited.

Studies repeatedly show that children who are born in poverty, live
in unsanitary conditions, experience little mental stimulation or nur-turing,
and have poor nutrition in their first years are far more likely
than richer children to grow up stunted in both body and mind. Sci-ence
tells us that early child development is critical and marks a child
for life. The development of a young child’s brain affects physical and
mental health, capacity to learn, and behavior throughout childhood
and adult life. The wiring and sculpting of billions of neurons in the
early years establish the base for developing competence and coping
skills later. For nations, the first few years of a child’s life have a multi-plier
effect. Young children who are well nurtured tend to do better in
school and are more likely to develop the skills they will need to com-pete
in a global economy. Investing in young children is an essential
investment in human and economic development.




The World Bank (hardly a leftist or socialist organization) agrees that poverty, and particulary childhood poverty, is extremely problematic. Furthermore, its interesting that they don't just tell all those poor people to just get over it, work harder and make better choices.

The document is rather long, but the forward, by itself, is worth a look.

http://www1.worldbank.org/publications/pdfs/15050intro.pdf#search='effects% 20of%20poverty%20on%20human%20development'


Peace.

Erik






[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CEEJ]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 01:33 PM
quote:
The World Bank (hardly a leftist or socialist organization) agrees that poverty, and particulary childhood poverty, is extremely problematic. The document is rather long, but the forward, by itself, is worth a look.

http://www1.worldbank.org/publications/pdfs/15050intro.pdf#search='effects% 20of%20poverty%20on%20human%20development'


Peace.

Erik




[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CEEJ]

I doubt you'll find many dissenting opinions.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/13/2005 at 04:30 PM
quote:
You live in a scary world. I'm glad I don't live there.


It's not so bad... I've learned to duck.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2005 at 02:53 PM
And then there's the President's view of poverty. Oh, how I long for the day that voters actually engage their minds before entering those booths.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20050926/cm_thenation/724486&printer= 1;_ylt=AnYTw3rZrN.x3.0NTbjlgUI__8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Why Bush is Wrong on Poverty
Katrina vanden Heuvel
Mon Sep 26,12:22 PM ET

The Nation -- In his September 15 speech to the nation, President Bush asserted that poverty in America is mostly restricted to the nation's Southern states. Like a lot of right-wing ideologues when it comes to issues of race andpoverty in America, he's in denial.

Many Republicans seem to believe that poverty is confined to one region of the nation, that the past (i.e. what Bush called a "history of racialdiscrimination") should shoulder the blame for the problem, and that individuals make choices that determine their station in life. Bush's supporters hold the White House and the Republican agenda blameless, and argue that the president's vision for building an "ownership society" will enable America's poor to build a better life for themselves and their families.

The first thing wrong with such arguments is that poverty is not simply found in the deep South, as Bush suggested in primetime. Poverty is a fact of life in every city and state nationwide. Sociologist Andrew Beveridge (at the request of the New York Times) recently conducted an economic survey of New York City and confirmed what other studies have already shown--that New York is divided between the rich and the poor. This fabulously wealthy city has more than its share of entrenched poverty and racial economic disparities.

In the Bronx, the poverty rate is 30.6 percent, outranked only by three border counties in Texas where living costs are far lower. Overall, NewYork City's poverty rate was 21.8 percent, and people of color are more than twice as likely to be poor as non-Hispanic whites. Beveridge's study revealed as well that the bottom fifth of Manhattan's income-earners are paid two cents for each dollar that the top fifth currently earns. Economist Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute argues that Manhattan by itself is actually "an amplified microcosm" of poverty in the nation at large. (Manhattan is also leading the way when it comes to another ominous trend: as the Fiscal Policy Institute recently warned, the city's middle class is being wiped out.)

America's claim to shame is that it has the highest level of poverty in the industrialized world. Bush's four and a half years of trickle-down theories have failed miserably. The poor have become even poorer. The nation's poverty rate has climbed from a 27 year low of 11.3 percent to 12.7 percent last year. Thirty seven million Americans are living below the poverty line, a group so large, Newsweek's Jonathan Alter pointed out in a post-Katrina cover article, that it amounts to "a nation of poor people the size of Canada or Morocco living inside the United States."

Bush may talk about addressing poverty in this rich nation, but his coldhearted agenda has made the problems much more pronounced. His administration gave a massive tax break to corporations and the wealthiest individuals in his first term; since then, despite evidence of rising income inequalities, a growing sea of red ink, and $200 billion needed to fight the war in Iraq and another $200 billion we will spend to rebuild the Gulf region, Bush has ruled out repealing any of his tax cuts for the rich.(And this while household incomes failed to rise for five consecutive years--for the first time on record.)

Bush leads a Republican party that has refused to increase the minimum wage (stuck at $5.15 an hour since 1997), tried to cut Medicaid, foodstamps, housing for the poor, Social Security, and promoted "faith-based initiatives" to rally "armies of compassion" that are supposed to assist the poor through the right-wing panacea of charitable, religious giving. His Gulf Opportunity Zone is a sham. And while this White House tries to cut worker's pay in rebuilding the Gulf region, it lines the pockets of those poster boys of corruption--Halliburton and KBR--with no-bidcontracts. As Derrick Jackson wrote in the Boston Globe last week, Bush's plan "will squeeze yet more pulp out of the poor."

If there is a bright spot amidst the despair and catastrophe, it is that some in the mainstream media have started addressing issues of poverty, race and class in America. I don't know how long this moment will last. But if some in the big media consistently and aggressively report on poverty and class as central issues in US politics and society--and a few leading political figures find the political will, the imagination and the courage to fight for policies that have proven to work in tackling such an intractable problem--maybe we will see some progress.



Peace.

Erik




[Edited on 9/26/2005 by CEEJ]

 

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